Is Your Teen Out of Control? There’s Still Hope

Do you feel like your teen is out of control? Are they angry, acting out, or even kicked out of school?

In this episode, I answer a message from a listener named Jodi. She’s a therapist who is worried about her niece’s 13-year-old son. He has ADHD and ODD and was just expelled from school. Now the family is thinking about sending him to a troubled youth camp.

I’ve been there. I got suspended from school as a teen — and it didn’t ruin my life. I share my story and give you tools to help your teen without shame, blame, or fear.

💡 What you’ll learn:

• Why expulsion isn’t the end
• What ADHD and ODD really mean
• How to connect with your teen
• Why control doesn’t work — but love does

You’re not alone. There is hope. Let’s figure this out together.

👉 Need help? Book a free mini session at benpughcoaching.com/mini

Want a Simple Step by Step Parenting Debrief Guide?

Go download the FREE Parenting Debrief Guide.

It’s simple and quick. It will help you uplevel your parenting. And, it’s completely FREE!

1. Go to benpughcoaching.com/debrief
2. Download the debrief
3. Start with your own internal debrief.

Transcript

Ben: 0:00

I'm Ben Pugh and you're listening to IMPACT! Parenting with Perspective. This podcast is all about helping parents manage the mental and emotional drama that comes with parenting teens so they can focus on what's most important. Building rock solid relationships and having a powerful impact on their teen's life. Join me each week as I dive into real tools to help you and your teen turn struggles into strengths.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 0:32

Hello everyone. welcome back to the podcast today as promised, I've got Cortni back with me. and as promised, we are going to talk about the most recent fan mail that we got. Before we do that though, I want to just remind you guys, I cannot reach out to you based on the information that I get from fan mail. I get your name. I. The town that you live in, which isn't very accurate, and it gives me like the last four digits of your phone number. That's not enough to reach out to you if you leave me fan mail and you would like me to reach out to you personally and offer you a free coaching call or anything. You also have to email me ben@benpughcoaching.com is my email address, and from there. I can reply back to you. if you would like, you could just go to benpughcoaching.com/mini and you could hop on a free consultation with me. I'm not saying don't do fan mail because I do want you to, and I've had people tell me, oh, man, that helped me when you and Cortni talked about that one thing. So keep sending the fan mail, but if you want. More personal help from me. Also reach out to me. You can either email me at Ben at Ben Pugh coaching or go sign up for, yeah, Ben at Ben Pugh coaching. Wait, no, my Yes, you're right. When people give me their email address and it's Gmail and they're like@gmail.com, everyone knows this.com, but maybe that's not the case. Where ben ben pugh coaching.com and. I'd be happy to help you. So if you want me to reach out, you gotta gimme more information than just fan mail. So, Cortni, did I explain that well enough?

Cortni: 2:32

I hope so. If not, hopefully someone will send you some fan mail and say, can you please clarify?'cause you made no sense.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 2:39

that's true. You know, I could also give you Cortni's phone number so that you could just text her at your leisure with any question that you ever might ask.

Cortni: 2:50

I question if you actually have my phone number.'cause when I sent fan mail, have my town, my state, and the last four digits of my phone number. And you still didn't know it was me.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 2:59

Hey, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm just the best looking one. Okay. Maybe not even that.

Cortni: 3:07

you can't have it all.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 3:10

Okay. So anyways, today's fan mail. I'm just gonna read it. It's awesome. hi, my name is Jody. I'm a therapist in Southern Nevada. I listen to your podcast often and feel like you may be able to give some perspective and advice on a situation I have with a niece whose son is 13 and he is struggling. He's been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Funny thing. I was told I have both of those by the way, and I turned out fine. Um, I don't know the whole story, but I do know he's been recently expelled from school and is out of control. She is ready to send him to a troubled youth camp. the data on those, by the way, is just terrible. troubled youth camps, residential treatment facilities. In my opinion, the risk is not worth the small chance of a reward. Anyways, we can talk more on that later. anyways, she could really use some advice. If you want to reach out to me, I would love to connect her with you. Guess what? I can't reach out to you. I don't have enough of your information, but let's talk about a couple of things. Number one, Cortni has never heard the story of me lighting a school bus on fire, and I told her,

Cortni: 4:37

but I don't have details.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 4:39

what details are you missing?

Cortni: 4:41

I don't know how the flame ignited. All I knew is like rubber cement was involved. A school bus and Ben Pugh. That's all I have.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 4:48

Yeah, well, to protect the names of my buddies that have probably gotten past this by now, and apparently I haven't, I won't mention their names, but one of my friends, stole some rubber cement and he is like, bro, will you keep this in your backpack for me? And I knew he had stolen it. But I agreed to keep it in my backpack and I was gonna give it to him later that day on the bus. So I felt guilty all day long, and we finally get on the bus. We couldn't exchange the rubber cement because there are too many good kids sitting around us. So like towards the end of the bus ride home, when there's just a few kids left on the bus, all the good nerdy kids in the front us, dumb knuckleheads in the back and that's when he's like, bro, can I have my rubber cement back? So I'm pulling it out and I was a seventh grader and I think my friend who stole it was also a seventh grader. And we were hanging out with this cool ninth grader who was like, dude, I have a lighter. Let's see what happens. And so I'm not 100% sure who was holding the rubber cement and who opened it, but it got opened, my buddy, the ninth grader, with the lighter lit it. when we lit it. the bottle of rubber cement, like you could hear an audible like, like it just ignited instantly. We're all like, oh crap. Like put the lid back on, put the lid back on, and we couldn't get the lid back on straight. And I'm like, I'm just gonna throw this thing out the window. I missed the open window and I hit the little bar in between open windows, like honestly the worst throw ever. And it sent flaming rubber cement all over the back of the bus,

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 6:45

um.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 6:45

which the ninth grader. Because he was older and he was the one who lit it, he got safe schooled or expelled, which they could do for up to a full calendar year. I believe he got a full calendar year. My other friend who had stolen it, he was a troublemaker, and so he got suspended for like multiple weeks. I was like the dumbest and the most innocent. I was like the lovable idiot that they're like, and I was in special ed at the time. I believe I was in special ed. We used to call it resource. I don't know. Serious, you're, you're laughing at a special kid now.

Cortni: 7:30

No, no, it's just the whole story. It's has nothing to do with your classes that you took in seventh grade. I would never judge, ever. I honestly wouldn't.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 7:39

They called it resource back then, and it just made you feel like an idiot. But anyways, because of those circumstances, I only got suspended for a week, maybe two, I can't remember. But I'll tell you this, my parents did not handle that very well. Um, I remember my mom, I, I feel so bad for my mom. I was the oldest, like she had no idea what she was doing, and she's just like scared to death. She's like, Ben, I only knew two kids. Whoever got suspended, one's in jail and the other's dead. Like that's what your outlook is like. I can't remember how she said it, but I remember one was dead and one was in jail, and I was like, great. I. Fast forward lots of years. When I was a high school principal, we caught a kid smoking weed in the bathroom. I don't know why you'd want to do anything in the bathroom other than go to the bathroom. But at the school as the principal at, that's where people chose to like. Sell drugs, smoke weed, have sex. Like, I'm like, seriously guys? This is like the dirtiest place in the whole school. This is where you wanna do this. Anyways, so we caught a kid smoking weed. I had to call his dad in and we're gonna suspend this kid. And the dad was just livid and he was a huge. Mountain of a man, and I had been a principal probably for a year and a half at this point. And I'm like telling the dad like, dude, we're gonna have to suspend your kid because he is smoking weed in the school. And his dad is just so pissed off. He's like, yeah, we're gonna deal with this at home. And I'm like worried that this kid is gonna get his butt whooped at home. And I was like, timeout, dude. I was suspended when I was a kid. I told the whole lighting your school bus on fire story, and this was like the first time I had ever been brave enough to mention it before. I was like, man, what if someone finds out that I did that as a kid and they won't let me be principal anymore? Anyways, the dad went from like literally being on the verge of killing his own child to laughing and he's sitting next to his child and he elbows him and he is like, dude, at least you didn't light the bathroom on fire. Ha. Like just. It completely changed the mood. And I feel like part of that was this dad realizing, oh, this principal was a freaking knucklehead as a teenager and he's turned out, okay, if my kid smokes weed in school, obviously that's not what I want, but there's a chance that he can turn out okay too. And the funny thing was like the dad was like, Hey. At least he didn't light the bathroom on fire. And the next thing he said was, maybe you'll grow up to be a principal someday. It helps change the perspective. And one of the things that I would tell you about this when kids get expelled from school, the lens through which we view that is like, oh no, something's gone wrong. You are a bad kid and I think we need to change that lens. Like if this kid, I have no idea what he did, but getting sus or getting expelled from school is typically severe enough That suspension doesn't work anymore. Uh, you're outta school for a long time. I would be very curious what is going on with this young man? What. Are his thoughts about himself? What are his thoughts about like his self-worth? I can tell you the whole school bus lighting thing, if I'd have had better self-worth, that would've never happened. I was just trying to fit in, going along with a herd, and these are some things that I feel like if I were to work with him, these would be like priority number one. What's going on in your mind? How do you think about yourself? How do you feel about yourself? What are some of the habits that you've got going on? Those are all things that I can help you with. Cortni, anything you want to add to this?

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 12:00

Yeah. Um, I mean, I have a kind of a similar story. Um.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 12:05

I.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 12:06

I left high school, I went to beauty school and I went to advanced training to specialize in color. And they had a rule there, it was like a six month school, and they're like, if you don't show up or call by nine o'clock, you're dropped from the program. Like no questions asked, you're just done. one morning I woke up at nine 14 and I called and they're like, well, come on in. So I went in and they dropped me and they're like, listen, you're a great student. We love to have you back, but it's the rule. So like in six months if you wanna come back, welcome to. That was the most devastating thing for me at that time, but it also taught me a huge lesson. Um, and I did go back and I did graduate and I was successful in the salon and did great. Um, but it just made me realize like I just buckled down. Like I feel like I had to hit that bottom to really appreciate where I went and maybe this, this young man getting expelled from school will be a lesson, but I. With having support with, without having someone continue to tell him how bad he is or you know, their fears. I don't know. But I mean, look how great I turned up.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 13:12

I know.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 13:13

school bus on fire and were suspended. I was dropped from a specialized school for hair. And look, here we are.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 13:20

Yeah, take it from a couple of knuckleheads. This kid's race is not yet run. Um, here's something that I would add. Gosh, these are unpopular opinions. A DHD is, uh, it, it's a hard one. There's kids with. Actual A DHD. And there's kids that get labeled really early on as having a DHD. And oftentimes, rather than learning the skills necessary to handle that, we go the drug route or we go, I can't remember what it's called, but where they take you outta the main class. Back when I was a kid, they called it resource, and you just felt stupid for going to resource. But I. We don't do a great job of teaching kids who struggle with A DHD alternative tools. Like I remember my mom asking me like, Ben, what the crap is wrong with you? Like, seriously, how can you make dumb choice after dumb choice? I remember seriously thinking, what is wrong with me? Like I'm doing my best. I'm trying to be a good kid. I'm trying to follow the rules, and for some reason. I slip up and I get in trouble. Kids with A DHD, we'll talk about ODD, oppositional defiance disorder in a minute.'cause I have a special kind of dislike for that diagnosis. But A DHD, we are not teaching kids the tools that they need to manage that and. Far too often we're relying on things outside of the teenager's control to help them. And man, there's so many things outside of that teen's control, like we don't know about the home life. We don't know. Like I had a kid that would freaking bounce off the walls and they're like, yeah, this kid has a DHD. Like, good luck with him. I had him for two years and he started getting super bad acne and he went to the doctor and the doctor's like, oh dude, you are allergic to this and this and this and this. He cut out certain dyes. And he cut out something else in his diet and it, this was like a whole new kid and they were just trying to like figure out why is his acne so bad And they inadvertently cured his A DHD because they cut out foods that he was having allergic reactions to. Like, anyway, so there are things that we don't know and the first thing that I'd be like, dude, if you have a DHD. You can't go through life using this as an excuse or using it as an anchor to weigh you down. You are the one struggling with this. You've gotta be the one to try new things out to figure out how to manage that. Anything you want to add to that, Cortni?

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 16:21

Yeah. Um, so I have A-D-H-D-I have some, like, I was diagnosed when I was 19. Um. And fun fact, like I didn't even graduate high school. I went through maybe half of my sophomore year. I was just over it. I went and took my GED and I passed with flying colors. And my grandmother always said, you were just too smart. You already knew everything. And I was like, yeah, we'll go with that. Um, but really I just didn't like school. It wasn't for me. I couldn't focus. I like it was just horrible. Um, I feel like I lost my train of thought. Sorry. That's. Oh

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 16:59

were going in the direction of, you had to kind of figure out your own way and make it work for you.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 17:06

yeah. And it, it's good for parents to also realize like, what are some of the sym, there's child's symptoms of A DHD. So I'm not hyperactive. My brain is like the one that has 12 squirrels running in it at any given time. Um. But like being forgetful or not finishing something like sometimes give your kids grace and understand, especially if they have been diagnosed with a DHD, like it's, they're not doing it intentionally. I forget to text people back after a week or two, and it's not intentional. It's just like that object, permanence. It's not right in front of me. Like I can only focus on one thing at a time. To completion if I'm gonna finish something.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 17:45

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 17:46

and I like when we're punishing kids for, oh, well you didn't do this and you should know better. You know, you do this, you have to do this every week. Why don't you just do it? Well, it, it's not that they're being defiant, like maybe they just, their brain is just not telling them, reminding them that they have to do it. There's so many other things going on.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 18:03

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 18:04

Does that make sense?

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 18:05

Yeah. And let's talk about ODD or oppositional defiance for a minute. Oppositional defiance disorder. I was like, what's the second D for? But anyways, ODD, I've talked to multiple doctors, like I am not a doctor. I have a lot of friends that are doctors. I talk with a lot of therapists, and most of them, when I've talked to'em about ODD, this is how nerdy I am. I'm like, what? What? What's your opinion on ODD? Most of'em are like, it's a garbage diagnosis. Like there's. Usually more to the story. It's far too broad. Like I had a free consultation. Guys, if you're listening, I love you. Sorry that you are one of my examples, but they're like, man, our daughter has O-D-D-A-D-H-D, all the same stuff. And they're like, man, she's a fantastic musician. Like she plays all these instruments, like five of'em. I didn't know people could play that many. I thought you just picked one. Got really good at it, but apparently you can pick five. Anyways, she like plays these instruments. She does okay in school. She's really smart. She gets it, but she forgets to turn her homework in. Sometimes her parents will ask her to do stuff and she'll refuse and she'll actually argue and yell at them and call names. And I'm like, guys, this isn't ODD. Like you're dealing with a teenager who thinks she's smarter than her parents. That's normal. Like if you're a teen, doesn't think they're smarter than you. You got a problem. You gotta work on that because teens are wired to think they're smarter than their parents. The thing about when I talked to them, and we're talking about boundaries and stuff, the parents just had different values than the daughter. And when we were talking about setting boundaries and identifying some of the values, I was like, you guys could totally like. One of the coolest things. She hates touching dirty dishes. She's like, I don't wanna load the dishwasher. I don't wanna touch dirty dishes. I don't wanna touch other people's nasty germs on those dirty dishes. And I was like, man. Is there something you would be willing to do instead of washing, like doing the dishes and she's like, I'll clean the bathroom every week, which in my mind is crazy'cause I'm like, the bathroom is way more disgusting than touching dirty dishes. But not for her. She's like, if I can get out of the dishes every day, I will clean all the bathrooms in the house once a week and make sure they're. Nice and clean. And I'm like, in my house, we would have a deal, like I'd be reaching out my hand being like, deal, no takebacks. And the parents are like, yeah, but he needs to learn how to do dishes. And I'm like, why? Like. No, just let her keep the bathroom clean. That's awesome. And just, you never have to clean the bathrooms and she never has to do the dishes rather than, I feel like too many times with kids that get diagnosed with ODD, they're told they have a problem. They're the problem. You gotta learn how to operate inside this box, inside these boundaries. And I feel like one of the things, so I've worked with lots of teens with ODD and whenever possible, I also work with their parents. When you can figure out how to create boundaries that work for both parties. This family was like, oh, so we don't have to make her do dishes to be good parents. I'm like, no. That's like the stupidest old parenting myth that we can't let go of. Like she can never do a dish in her life and still be okay. Especially like right now, the currency is, hey all, all trade washing of the bathrooms and the toilets for this. In the future, she's going to like have a job somewhere and she'll be like, oh. I can pay you to come clean my bathrooms. Yeah, problem solved. We don't need to make it a problem now anyways, I could go on and on about ODD guys. If you have a teen diagnosed with ODD before you go the medication route, before you do, like they have some good occupational therapies right now, but you could start in your own home with a brand new discussion about. Boundaries and what your teen thinks would be fair and start working more from their angle as opposed to what most adults do, which is work from just their angle like I'm the parent. Do it my way. Find ways to empower your teen. Cortni, I just spoke a lot for a long time. What you thinking?

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 22:56

Um, no, I agree. I also think when we put labels on our teens, and like you said, we make them the problem, it's like, well, you have ODD For us as parents, we are looking at them through that lens, and we are expecting all of their behaviors to be oppositional or defiant. And then the team, like the team, why wouldn't they want to react that way? If someone had labeled us. So like if we have an interaction with someone at a doctor's office and they have us labeled as, you know, difficult patient or something, we're gonna go in there knowing that they feel that way and we're gonna act different. At

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 23:27

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 23:28

if I feel like someone has already labeled me, how can I, you know, so it's tough when, when you have a label on you and I don't know,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 23:38

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 23:39

that's tough.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 23:41

Do. Have you ever read the book Leadership and Self-Deception?

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 23:46

Have I read the book Leadership and Self Deception? It's on my top two.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 23:52

So Cortni wouldn't read it forever, and then she did read it and it freaking changed your life. But do you remember the part of the book where you're so much better at this part. You actually remember the character's names? I just remember the story around it. But the old guy who sent his kid to a wilderness camp, basically towards the end of the,

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 24:15

Bud?

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 24:16

probably bud.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 24:17

Oh, wait, no.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 24:19

And he talks about how he sent his kid to a wilderness camp and at the wilderness camp they're like, look, all your parents, you gotta come learn this. And basically they pulled the rug out from under him and they're like, you have the problem. You can't control your keen, you gotta fix you. Anyways, they dropped the kid off at this wilderness camp. It worked in the book, but um. The dad, but I believe his name was, he realized I'm the problem. I need to change. And when they went and picked their kid up from this camp, he was like, I'm so sorry. As the adult, the thing about wilderness camp, or what did you call it here? Um, troubled youth camp. It puts the focus on something outside of your control. You can't control the camp. You can't control your teenager. You can't control anything. Plus, my other problem with that is it puts your teen out of your direct contact when you can really explore what can I control? What can I change about me? How can I be the change that I want to see? One of the things that I've seen happen multiple times is that takes so much of the pressure off of the teen because we live in a world that when teens get expelled, like we blame the teen. Like, this is all your fault. What's wrong with you? And there's a fine line between blame and responsibility, like, I want to empower this team. To be responsible for his mistakes, what he did wrong, how he got himself expelled. I want him to be responsible for all of that. But as a parent, I also want to be responsible for what I can change. Like, man, you know what, we haven't had great boundaries in this home, and that's on me. So starting today, we're gonna have a discussion on boundaries. You know what? I haven't been very. Oh, what's the word I'm looking? I haven't like given you praise. I haven't complimented you. I haven't noticed the good things that you're doing, and I've been super critical. I focused on everything you've made done wrong. That's something I can change. And by the way, if you're dealing with kids at trauma or that have had trauma, like they say normal kids as if anyone's normal in this world, but they say normal kids like. Four to one. Like if you give one piece of criticism, you should try and give them four compliments or four praise or attaboy, and they're like, if you're dealing with kids. So back when I was a foster parent, they're like, if your kid is in the foster system, that in and of itself is traumatic. They've dealt with trauma. You need to be looking at 17 positive interactions to every one negative. If this kid is getting expelled, I guarantee you he has had more than his fair share of negative interactions with adults, whether it be you as parents, which I'm not throwing you under the bus here. Like I'm not perfect. I have negative interactions with my kids.

Cortni: 27:44

Mm-hmm.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 27:44

if you can then kind of mentally try and keep a tally and realize, man. I'm having more negative interactions than I am positive. Yes, it would be great if we could get to 17 to one, but if right now you're at two negatives for every one positive man, you could flip that to two positives for every one negative, and that in and of itself would be better.

Cortni: 28:11

Yeah, and not focusing, not focusing on all the negatives all the time. Not everything needs correction.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 28:17

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 28:17

like I've learned through. Yeah, not everything needs correction and we're so quick to point out and myself included, point out all the things that they might do wrong or don't do,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 28:29

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 28:30

Um, sometimes just let it be. They're not intentionally being little jerks all the time.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 28:36

Yeah.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 28:37

They're really not.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 28:38

And here's two things. With like my principal hat on, number one, when I was a principal, I did everything in my power not to expel kids. Um, in Utah we have the law based on certain things. You can what's called safe school, a kid for up to a calendar year In Utah, administrators use that as an excuse to get a tough kid outta their school for a full calendar year. And we had a kid, man, it was actually pretty serious. I brought a gun to school on accident, so he says, but didn't use it. It was in his backpack. And I had to save school, that kid,'cause that was a safe school violation. I had him outta the school for I think 10 days. The state of Utah called me up and they're like, Hey, you can't let him come back to school? It hasn't been a full calendar year. And I'm like, oh, I read it and it says up to a calendar year. What does that mean? And they're like, oh, well you, that's to protect the kid. You can't expel'em for over a year. And I'm like, oh, awesome. So up to means I can't go over a year, but what's the minimum here? And they're like. There is no minimum am like Exactly. So he is gonna be out of the school. Actually, I think I had him out of school suspended for five days and in school suspended for five days. And Cortni, when a kid gets in school suspension at my school, guess who they had to hang out with all day every day.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 30:20

Principal Pugh.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 30:21

Principal Pugh and they loved it. Actually. They usually hated it, but like it was the best thing that I could do. Like half the kids would get suspended because they didn't wanna go to school anyways. They wanted to go home and smoke pot. I'm like, no, I don't want you outta school. I don't care if you got in a fight with what's his bucket. I'm gonna keep you guys separated and I'm gonna alternate back and forth who gets to hang out with me and we're gonna spend time together. The thing I'll say about expulsions and suspensions in school with all the information that we have about behavior, behavior, mod modification, behavior management, why are suspensions and expulsions continuing to go up year after year after year? It's'cause people don't want to deal with them. It's a knee jerk reaction to just expel kids and kick'em outta school. I think we need to call administrators out. There's actually FERPA laws and other laws to protect your kids saying that they deserve an all an education and we gotta quit giving administrators a free pass when they kick a kid outta school. We need to be asking like, well, you are still legally responsible for providing an education for this kid, so. What are you gonna do? Make them responsible? Because in my case, I learned pretty quickly it is way easier for me to keep them in school. I know what I'm good at, which is creating relationships. If this kid is struggling in school, it's probably because he's struggling with relationships rather than his education outside of the school. It's easier for me to keep him in school and connect with him there and help him there. Most schools don't think that way. And I forgot the second thing I was gonna talk about. Cortni, bail me out. I know you got something right on the tip of your tongue.

squadcaster-f3i8_1_05-09-2025_102800: 32:16

I was just thinking while you're talking about that, I partially agree with that. Um, but I also think there needs to be accountability at home. I see so many kids get shipped off to school and these teachers and administrators are left to deal with it, but then there's no responsibility from home,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 32:33

Yeah.

Cortni: 32:34

And I, I told my son's teacher last night, I was like, bless your heart. Because I was only blessed with enough patients to barely manage my own children. I can't imagine managing a whole classroom full of kids it. There needs to be support from home too, and if there's not that, what else is the school left to do?

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 32:52

Yeah. Cape. Oh, I love, yeah, I love that you brought that up. What else is the school supposed to do? You know, my T chart of control teaching, right? I.

Cortni: 33:03

Yes,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 33:06

There's two sides. What I can control, what I cannot control,

Cortni: 33:09

correct.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 33:10

from home. Which side of that T-chart does that fall in?

Cortni: 33:14

If you're the school,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 33:15

Yep.

Cortni: 33:16

that's the side you cannot control.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 33:18

Yeah, so I 100% agree with you. We would, when I suspended a kid, I would. Make part of the kids' reentry into the school, be that the parents had to come spend a day in school with their kid, which I get you can't do everywhere on the tribe. If they worked for the tribe, they could spend a day in the school and still get paid. Anyways, we were able to work out some cool things. I had to get creative and find what I could control. But as much as I agree with you, we need more support from home. I don't see that happening anytime soon. But if you're listening to this podcast, you might be one who could start asking yourself, what could I do to offer more support as a parent? And it's kind of a tough pill to swallow the first time you ask yourself that, but it's empowering to you and your teenager.

Cortni: 34:20

Well, it probably has a lot to do with why they're acting outta school is what's, know,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 34:25

Yeah.

Cortni: 34:25

at home.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 34:26

Do you know that? I feel like I am like evidence against that. Like I remember people telling me like, Ben, you have good parents, you have a good home life. Like what is wrong with you? And I'm like, I dunno.

Cortni: 34:41

I think you were just like a big puppy. You were just a big goofball and like nothing you did was malicious or you know, to be bad. Right.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 34:49

Yeah, well I did punch a kid in the face once'cause he would not stop picking on me and I could,

Cortni: 34:56

he deserves it.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 34:57

yeah, we'll talk about bullying another day because I could go on about that. He, here's something so. If this is you or if any of this sounds familiar, I would give you some homework. Number one, go read a book. It's called Leadership and Self-Deception. It will help you shift your focus from this teenager who. According to the school and the world kinda looks like the problem. And it will help you shift your focus from this teenager who's outside of your control back to yourself. the other thing that I would do, and man, this is gonna make some people cringe, I would be really clear. I don't think. Being expelled is the worst thing ever. Like I would have a real honest conversation like, dude, if you're not gonna go to school, which you are responsible for that you made it so that you can't go to school, what's your plan now? And I would have that discussion. I had a kid, man, he dropped outta school. I wasn't supposed to allow him to drop outta school, but man, he needed it. He was a pain in the butt. We got him out and he is like, well, I'm gonna go work for my dad in the oil field. I'm gonna make all this money. And we're like, yeah, go do it. Dude. He was gone the last few months of school. All of summer. And then when school was ready to start back up, he's like, please, can I come back to school? I never wanna do that job in the oil field again. In fact, now I know the education I want to do so that I can have the job that's over that job. Like that was exactly what he needed. And if you handle this. To the best of your ability, and if you find ways to empower your teenager, I promise you this will be an experience. That was exactly what he needed to figure his crap out.

Cortni: 37:03

Yeah, I agree. Some of the most challenging things I've gone through have been my biggest lessons. I will say about the book leadership and Self Deception, when you first start listening to it. Don't take offense.'cause Ben told me about five or six times to read it and I was like, no, no. When I finally did, I was like, why the heck did he tell me to read this? This is basically telling me that everything I'm doing is wrong, like it's all my fault. And I was a little butt hurt, but I continued to listen to it and I eventually bought it, but I continued to listen to it and it's a great book. Like you just have to get over yourself and get past the first part and it's, it makes you feel so much better. I don't know. I feel like I should listen to it once a month, just as a refresher.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 37:47

I listen to it at least two or three times a year. I probably haven't listened to it yet this year. We should maybe listen to it. Have you ever listened to the Go-Giver?

Cortni: 37:58

No.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 37:59

That's another good one. Um, let's, this podcast has gone just a little bit long. Let me just. Give you this. Human beings have a fundamental need for connection. And there are some studies on this. I am not a scientist or a studier. We already established, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do know that there is scientific data and there are studies that talk about. Oh, the prison pipeline and how when you suspend kids, you're basically isolating them from society, and that makes the problem even worse, which I. Increases their likelihood of going to prison areas to talk about like how this affects like minorities. Even worse. But the thing is, the way that we handle people who make mistakes in our society is to isolate them and just ignore them. And there's a lot of study to back up that what these kids need rather than being. Kicked out of the population. They need to be more included in the population. And one of the things that I would do as principal to get people back into school, we'd put'em under contract. And one of the things that I would always include in the contract is like, oh, you like basketball? You gotta go be on the basketball team. We didn't have cuts in this school. Like we didn't have enough kids. some kids were into clubs and I'd be like, yeah, you gotta be actively participating in this club rather than ostracizing them. We need to be. Enveloping them. We need to help them make more connections, not less connections. And so if your kid has been expelled, like you probably can't undo that. I would be happy to hop on a phone call and talk about how stupid suspensions and expulsions are, but probably won't help you just see your kid where they're at. Really start exploring how can we help him build more relationships and more connections. Um, I guarantee you there's a church in your community or scouts or clubs or freaking acting play stuff. When I got in trouble one time, oh my goodness, I was in so much trouble. I couldn't do anything. My parents were like, you know what, you can go be in a play with your brothers. I'm like, I'm not gonna be in a play. Do I look like a loser? After another week or so of not hanging out with anyone, I was like, can I go be a part of the play? That was one of the best experiences ever. I'm out there like singing and dancing and I would've never done that. And what was funny, like my football buddies. That went and saw the play. They're all making fun of me and I'm like, dude, you're the one who goes and watches plays. Like, seriously, you're gonna make fun of me for being in one. But anyways, we could go on forever. Help your teen, make more meaningful relationships. And really, he. It might be hard, like don't just settle for like video games and virtual stuff. Get them into something real face-to-face contact, real connection. Cortni, anything you wanna say before we wrap up?

Cortni: 41:49

Nope. That was great.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 41:51

Okay. I think you're awesome, Cortni. Thank you for being on.

Cortni: 41:55

Yeah, I love it. I enjoy it.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 41:57

Well, I think you're fantastic, so keep coming and helping me.

Cortni: 42:02

Thanks.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 42:03

Okay. With that guys, we're gonna let you go. Um, just to get you excited for the future. I have a. Uh, another life coach. She and I have been coaching each other for I think four or five, or maybe even longer, but four or five years. We're gonna do a podcast swap soon and we're gonna talk about some awesome deep stuff. Um, also we're gonna talk about bullying. Cortni, are you down if we talk about bullying in the next future?

Cortni: 42:38

Yeah,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 42:39

Yeah.

Cortni: 42:39

future. Yeah,

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 42:40

The near futures that I meant to say Cortni bullies me all the time

Cortni: 42:45

You are sensitive.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 42:47

anyways, so keep listening guys. We love having you here. Keep giving us fan mail. We will answer everything that we can. And just remember, if you send fan mail and you want us to reach out to you, also email me at ben@benpughcoaching.com.

Cortni: 43:06

com.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 43:07

Yeah. All right guys. Thank you for being here, Cortni, as always, thanks for hanging out with me.

Cortni: 43:14

Thanks, Ben.

ben_1_05-09-2025_092753: 43:15

See y'all next man.