The Thing That Is Secretly Wrecking Your Relationship with Your Teen

You love your teen. You try to help. You want things to get better.
 But what if you’re accidentally doing something that’s quietly sabotaging your connection?

In this episode, Ben and Cortni unpack one of the most powerful ideas from Leadership and Self-Deception—the hidden mindset that keeps parents and teens stuck in conflict, frustration, and blame.

You’ll learn:
 👉 What “being in the box” really means (and how it shows up in your family)
 👉 Why trying to “fix” your teen often makes things worse
 👉 The self-deception trap every parent falls into—and how to get out of it
 👉 How awareness can break the cycle and rebuild trust

If you’ve ever felt like your teen is the problem, this episode might lovingly show you otherwise.

🎧 Listen now and discover the thing that’s secretly wrecking your relationship—so you can finally rebuild it stronger than ever.

Are You Caught in the Parent Trap?

Discover the hidden patterns that are keeping you stuck—and how to break free.

Take this quick (and eye-opening) quiz to uncover which common parenting trap you’re falling into with your teen.
Get a personalized roadmap to help you parent with more clarity, confidence, and connection—starting today.

https://benpughcoaching.com/parenttrapquiz

Transcript

Ben: 0:00

I'm Ben Pugh and you're listening to IMPACT! Parenting with Perspective. This podcast is all about helping parents manage the mental and emotional drama that comes with parenting teens so they can focus on what's most important. Building rock solid relationships and having a powerful impact on their teen's life. Join me each week as I dive into real tools to help you and your teen turn struggles into strengths.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 0:32

All right, all you parents of teenagers out there, we are back and this week we are discussing one of my all time favorite books. This book made Cortni so mad at me that she was like cussing me out even though I live like 10 states away. But in the end, she embraced it and realized, man, this is actually a very powerful book.

Cortni: 0:58

Yes.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 0:58

Is that accurate?

Cortni: 1:00

Oh, 100%. 10 states away or not. I cussed you out for sure.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 1:06

Yeah, I don't even know how many states away we are. I don't even know how you would count that. Like would you count in a straight line or would you count, like how you would drive.

Cortni: 1:16

Probably a straight line.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 1:19

I don't know. We'll, we'll figure that out later. But this book that we're going to be discussing today is called Leadership and Self-Deception. We're actually gonna do a two part series because I'm a slacker and I haven't even started it yet, and Cortni has just about finished it. And to be fair. We didn't talk about it. Usually I listen to books while I'm on the bus traveling with a football team. The last time Cortni and I spoke was on a Friday. The day after our away games. So unless I'd have, could have, if I could have seen the future, then I would've known to start listening. But I'll, I'll have it listened to by the time we record next. And I have read this book at least once a year, probably for the past nine years. So I feel like I'll be able to, I'll do, okay. So anyways. This is the number one book that I recommend to parents. I feel like a lot of parents. I have heard of this book and it like makes the rounds in like leadership, business type things, but nobody really talks about this as a parenting book except for me. And so anytime parents are like, man, we can't change our teenager, like, what do you recommend that we do? I'm like, well first go read leadership and self-deception and then come back and talk to me and we'll start from there. And Cortni. It took me like, how long did it take me to talk you into reading this book?

Cortni: 3:01

Several months.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 3:03

Several months.

Cortni: 3:04

like something that would benefit me, like leadership and self deception, like why do I need to read that? And you said, I was in the box towards my husband and I was like, well, I am not reading this book then if that's gonna solve that problem. But I did.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 3:19

Yeah. And how many problems did it help with?

Cortni: 3:24

Oh my gosh. Not just my marriage, not just my relationship with my son, but even my relationships with some of my coworkers being able to recognize and then not react or be in the box towards them, even though they might have been in the box towards me, it kind of forces them to come outta the box.'cause I don't respond the same way. it was, it was instrumental in like making my work life. Much more pleasant.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 3:49

Yeah. Let's talk real quick about collusion.

Cortni: 3:54

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 3:55

Collusion is a topic in the book that I feel like applies to 90% of parents and teenagers, and it's where you are basically in the box towards someone else. They're in the box towards you, and then as both of you live in the box towards each other, you support each other's belief that the other person's the problem and not you.

Cortni: 4:19

Yes,

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 4:20

A nutshell,

Cortni: 4:21

yes.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 4:22

why is collusion so important to understand as a parent?

Cortni: 4:27

Because we see our teenagers as the problem or them needing to fix the problem. and like one of the characters in the book, she talks about how if she sees her son as the problem, then everything that he does, she is going to see it with this undertone. She's gonna see it through the lens that he is the problem. Even if he is being responsible and doing the right thing, she's not gonna see it as such.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 4:51

Yeah, I actually, you're talking about Kate. Kate, right.

Cortni: 4:56

Yes.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 4:57

And I believe the example that she gives, guys, look at me. This is me like showing off like how good my memory is. Her son asks to borrow the car and they're a little bit upset with their son and they're like, well, fine, you can borrow it, but you have to be home by 10:00 PM. So they're like sticking it to him, and so they're just sitting there waiting for him to come home. They're sure he is gonna be late. Count down the seconds. Well, he comes into the driveway at 10:00 PM squealing the tires, and rather than think, oh wow, he managed his time really well. He made it a priority to be home on time. Their thought was. Well, he's sure cutting it close and squealing the tires. And she talks about how when he comes in, like she didn't even compliment him for being home on time. She criticized him for how he did it because she's in the box. Everything he does, she's looking for it to be a problem.

Cortni: 6:03

Because it will justify her in blaming him. Right. The self-justification, you're being in the box. You need that. You need someone to behave in such a way that will justify how you see them.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 6:16

Yeah. Now I would say most people have no idea that they are in the box towards other people.

Cortni: 6:26

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 6:27

I feel like if you taught the concept of being in the box, it would be much easier to see all the other people that are in the box towards you.

Cortni: 6:35

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 6:35

But it's kinda hard to realize, oh wait, I'm in the box towards other people. I feel like this is almost an accepted norm in our culture, like Republicans and Democrats, like members of this church versus this other church, one sports fan base versus another. Sports fan base, and we're all in the box towards each other, and yet we see it as normal and like we're not, I, we don't see it as the problem that it is. What are your thoughts on that?

Cortni: 7:15

Yeah, no, I agree. I think the hardest part, and like that was the hardest part for me starting to listen to this book, is to realize that, hmm, maybe I might be small part of the problem. Not a lot, but a small

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 7:28

Very small.

Cortni: 7:29

it is true though. I think we can always do better, right? And learning and growing and once you're aware. do different.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 7:40

Yeah. I love that concept. By the way. Once you have awareness, you can now choose. To behave differently. And most people have zero awareness when it comes to their relationships with others, even their relationship with themselves. I'll tell you, there was a point this year with my football team that I'm coaching, so I'm one of the assistants with varsity that's super fun. I'm slightly jealous that I don't get help more with the older kids that are just better. They play at a higher level. The the sad thing is some of my football players have actually listened to this podcast, so now they might listen to me hating on them. I enjoy the freshmen too, but I'll tell you, there was a time early in the season, like our first game, we got demolished and we didn't have a bunch of players that were willing to step up and play, and I was like. These players suck. They're the worst players I've ever coached. I don't think I was that harsh on them, but I was like, I don't know what to do with these kids. And I was talking to my wife one time about it and she's like, well, Ben, you're supposed to be a good coach. Like, isn't that your job? To coach them up and make them better?

Cortni: 9:02

but

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 9:04

Did you say you love Deb? Because I didn't love him in that moment. No, I did. But she was right on. Like I was viewing my football players as the problem and I was blaming them. I was in the box towards them. I was justifying my behavior of like yelling at them and telling them how bad they suck. Okay. I never did that, but I was like justifying our losses and. My behavior and the other coach's behaviors. And there's one point where I talked to the other coaches and I was like, all right, so my wife said like, this is our job. These are the players that we have. We have to coach them up. Now, what can we control? And I felt like that was probably a really powerful turning point. And we haven't won every game like last week. we probably talked about this on last podcast, but we lost just at the end. Like we had to fight to come back. We had some awesome plays. We lost by four, and in the end, like I was so proud of my little freshman team because in the past, once we'd have gotten down by two touchdowns, we'd have just given up and we'd have just been like, we can't do this. We suck. We're done. But man, we fought till the bitter end and we had a chance to win this until the very end. And I told my players like, this is what we want. You can't guarantee that you're gonna win every game. You just want to be in position that you could win every game and really. This concept of being in the box. If you can understand that you focusing on the other person and seeing them as the problem and wishing that they would change and that they would be fixed, it actually disempowers you because you only have power to change or fix or improve yourself. And if you're sitting wandering. If you're sitting around wishing that the other person would change, you are not going to be empowering yourself to be the change that you want to see.

Cortni: 11:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah, when I listened to this, chapter earlier today, it made me sad because I realized how many parents and teenagers are in this trap. It really is just a vicious cycle. don't wanna read a whole bunch from the book, but they have these diagrams and hopefully it comes across it does in the book. Like when I read it, if you don't mind if I read a little. Diagram for you. Okay, so the mom is Kate and she was talking about her son Brian. And you, pointed out that he was getting home late. That was his issue. So she wrote down what he does and then what I see, so what he does is gets home late. What she sees is irresponsible, troublemaker, and disrespectful. and then there's a box that says what I do. So she disciplines harshly. She criticizes and hovers over his shoulder. What Brian sees is dictatorial, unloving, and nosy. when you see your parent like that, are you really gonna wanna do what it is that they want you to do? Right? You're almost asking for, yeah. So what he does is he gets home late still, and she still sees irresponsible, troublemaker, disrespectful, and it's just a vicious cycle. so yeah, I, I, when I say like, your kids can feel it undertone or if you're expecting a certain thing, that's what I'm talking about. Like that's, your kids will feel that. They will see that if you approach them and you're in the box. So just read the book. I don't do it justice, but it is amazing and it will definitely impact your relationship, not just with your teenager, but. your husband or your coworkers or family members,

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 13:11

Mother-in-law. That's what I hear all the time. Yeah.

Cortni: 13:15

Oh yeah.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 13:19

Yeah. It applies to any relationship. Let's talk about self-deception for a minute. I can't remember exactly who was giving the example, but remember the example of, There's a newborn baby involved,

Cortni: 13:34

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 13:35

the husband could hear the baby crying and he had this impulse or this urge to get up and help.

Cortni: 13:45

Yes.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 13:45

And then he gets into self-deception where he is like, well, I work super hard. I'm tired. My wife should get up. And then he starts thinking like. I'm a good husband, like I deserve the sleep. She is ignoring the child like she's not even a good mom. Like self-deception is the root when it comes to being in the box and having these. Negative relationships because you deceive yourself about yourself and about the other person. And when we get into self-deception, typically what we do, and I see parents doing this all the time, we play the victim and we overinflate

Cortni: 14:35

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 14:35

good qualities, and then we demonize our teenager and we exaggerate their worst qualities.

Cortni: 14:44

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 14:45

And this is self-deception because it's all going on within your mind and it is deceptive. It will change how you like. If you think about the self-coaching model, how you think determines how you feel. If you get into self-deception, it will change how you feel towards your teenager,

Cortni: 15:07

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 15:07

then impact how you treat your teenager.

Cortni: 15:11

Yes.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 15:12

That's one of the biggest problems that I see with parents. Like they come to me and they're like, Ben, can you help with our teen like this and this and this thing? And I'm like, well, none of that is within our control. And I guarantee you if I spoke with your teen, he wouldn't think those are as big a deal as you think that they are. So talk to us a little bit about self-deception.

Cortni: 15:38

just convincing yourself that the other person's the problem. and like you said, inflating your own self. So when Bud didn't get up to go get the baby while Nancy was sleeping, he started to see her as lazy or, not a good mom. And he started to see himself as, you know, a good husband because he does work hard and. Just thinking all of these false things about himself, but he didn't see his wife as any of those negative things until he self-deceived, until he didn't do what he felt like he should do. Then he started justifying why he didn't do it. It's, I, tricky to look at and see yourself do that, but if you get the book and read it and you see the whole context, it makes much more sense.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 16:29

Yeah. There's another book that I read recently. I'm trying to remember which one it was. I read too many books, but it talks about never ignore a generous urge. In fact, I'm gonna Google that real quick. Never

Cortni: 16:45

that.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 16:46

ignore a generous, thought. Maybe. Let's see. I'll have to find it, but that is the point. When people in this book, they talk about getting into self deception and getting into the box and how oftentimes it starts by having this generous thought like, man, I should do this, and then getting into self deception, which. Is your brain's sneaky, manipulative way to justify you not doing what you thought about doing.

Cortni: 17:28

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 17:29

And one of the things that I hear a lot from parents is like they have this idea for how they want to be as a parent. And it's funny, they usually blame their teen like, man, I want to. Have this nice dinner and we talk and we have a good conversation and X, Y, Z, like whatever it is. And they're like, but my freaking teen was just staring at their phone and they like start blaming the other teen and then that's their justification for never trying to do that. Well yeah, we never try and talk because they're always looking at their phone and the thing that I feel like is super powerful, if you can start recognizing. These generous urges or these intuitive thoughts. I like to talk about the inner wisdom that we all have that's trying to guide us. And the problem with our inner wisdom is we've been taught to ignore our inner wisdom. And then you get into self-deception. And not only are you ignoring your inner wisdom, but you're justifying not following your inner wisdom. And most parents have. A pretty good idea of who they want to be when it comes to their parenting, but they're so far in the box and they're stuck in self-deception that they can't show up and be the parent that they want to be, and they feel justified not doing that. So if you would like to start applying some of these principles, maybe take the Cortni approach like you've heard us talking about this.

Cortni: 19:10

Many times we've talked about the book

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 19:11

Many times. Yeah. Maybe it's time. What's that?

Cortni: 19:16

I said, but for good reason.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 19:17

Yeah. And maybe it's time, like it's on Audible. I listen to the second edition. I have an uncle who knows someone associated with the Arbinger Institute, and he is, I guess there's been changes made and he is like, oh, the latest edition is garbage. I don't know. The second edition. I love it. That's the one I listen to, but go ahead and listen to it and it's okay if you're slightly offended. I remember the first time I listened to it, like when, what's the main character's name?

Cortni: 19:54

Bud or the the one that's going for the meeting with Bud

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 20:00

Yeah, the one that's going to the meeting and Bud is like, dude, you have a problem,

Cortni: 20:06

Tom.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 20:06

Tom. Yes. There's a point in the book where Bud, he's the guy facilitating this training or this leadership leveling up, whatever you wanna call it. Anyways, and he tells Tom the main character, like, dude, you have a problem. And Tom's like, I have a problem. And I remember reading the book thinking, wow, that is harsh. Like you're just gonna come out and tell someone they have a problem.

Cortni: 20:36

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 20:38

Really, that is. The most empowering way to handle this, and when I coach parents of teenagers, I can't tell you how many times parents come to me on a free coaching call. They're like, Ben, will you help me fix my teenager? I try and be as gentle as possible. Like I don't want to come out and be like, no, no, you have a problem. Like you're bad. The thing that I try to explain is like, yeah, your teen probably has a million problems.

Cortni: 21:07

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 21:07

Everyone does, especially teens, but out of your teens, 1 million problems. You can't control any of'em. You can control you,

Cortni: 21:21

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 21:22

well, I guess out of your teens, 1 million problems. You're probably one of'em at least once. Like there you go. You can't control one of your teen's problems. But if you can be the change. And if you can realize, oh, everything that I want to change in my teen, it's just an invitation or it's a window more accurately, probably a mirror into yourself. If there's something you want to change about your teen, that is your inner wisdom pointing you in that direction saying, please address this in me. Like let's fix this.

Cortni: 22:01

You are

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 22:01

So,

Cortni: 22:02

to, your teen is likely reacting to you and how you speak to them or treat them, and then you're reacting to how they respond to you. And then it's literally just a vicious cycle. And once you're aware as the parent, then you can start to maybe not react to how they respond.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 22:21

yeah.

Cortni: 22:22

makes it a, it feel like a safer place for them. It just. when you interact with them, they will tell, they can see or feel the regard that you have behind that. You know the intention behind what you do or say. And that makes all the difference.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 22:36

Yeah, if you can identify this pattern or this cycle going on in your life, if you can get out of the box, you'll end that old behavioral loop and you'll start a new behavioral loop. One that is more connective with your teen and more empowering for you as a parent. So I feel like this is a pretty good intro. I think we've talked, I don't know, at least five people into listening to the book. They'll go check it out and I don't know. Here's what I'd like to do. We'll come back and talk about it again next week. I will have completely read it again, but. For the first time this round that I said I would read it anyways. If between now and then, I don't know that anyone would have enough time to get on and. Do the Ask Ben any questions, but if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. I'll share'em with Cortni and we could discuss'em on the podcast. There is, I can't even remember what it's called on the podcast, but you can like send me a message or you can just email me Ben at Ben Pugh coaching. But if you are like Cortni and you read this and you're offended. I would love to talk to you, love to help walk you through this process.

Cortni: 24:06

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing, it's freeing and you will take lots of detours on this new cycle that you're talking about.'cause you will fall back into the box and you will get yourself back out. I fell back into the box this weekend and I had to check myself and climb back out. So it's something that we have to work on every day, but like we've discussed this week and last week, just the awareness component is powerful.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 24:34

Yeah. Without awareness, your ability to choose is so diminished. I feel like. Most people are going through life with a very, very low level of awareness, and this is a powerful place to start. Like we said earlier, if you can, like if you read leadership and self-deception, it will heighten your awareness when it comes to your relationships and your family at work.

Cortni: 25:05

Mm-hmm.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 25:06

It's a powerful place to start heightening your awareness, and it doesn't just apply to like you and your teen. There are other areas in your life. Where you'll realize, man, I wasn't being as intentional as I could have been. So yeah, I think that's awesome. So come back next week, we'll kind of wrap up this conversation. We talked about this last week, but man, if we get enough people to read this. Reach out, let us know that you've read the book and we could do an impromptu book club where we discuss it and we answer any questions. And I can, like Cortni and I could personally help you apply some of the principles to your parenting to help you with your teenager. So with that, Cortni, any wise words you wanna leave these people with?

Cortni: 25:58

I have a great week.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 26:00

Yeah, how Well this comes out on Thursday, so. Have a good Thursday and a fantastic weekend, and then a good first three days of next week. Till

Cortni: 26:10

it is still a week, regardless of which day you started on.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 26:13

fine.

Cortni: 26:14

Have a good weekend y'all.

ben_5_10-06-2025_091948: 26:16

All right, talk to you guys soon.

Cortni: 26:18

Bye.